Curse

CookieOfFury · Aug 30, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Okay,
inspired from the teambuild EFGjack is using for his warrior, i tried to do the same thing for my dervish, since 100b+WA and VoS+EA are pretty much the same.
Since the synergie with MoP is to strong to let them unused, I fokused a pve teambuild on it, and this is what I endet up with originaly:

Player: OgCjkyrJbSkXfbmXXXNXibzkRX
RoJ1: OwYT44nCxxndXXIIjuI13lMPA
RoJ2: Owgk4sQ4jJqjP7uixs+dRqvLReA
MoP: OAlkQYG4hauDPeHbJ+E2hJRVFHD
Inep: OQNDAaoDSvArAIgkA5ZLfZAoR
Panik: OQhDAqwDO0gpXTIHY6W+ZgLG
ST: OACiAyk8Y9echTsJ00a6MvY
SoS: OAajEqiMJOXzyp0cyNMxYMTkB
Now, the plan is obvious i think: flag your heros 1-2 aggroboubles away from the enemies, let one monk cast SoA on you, aggro the mobs and force the necro to MoP, the monks to RoJ and yourself to VoS+EA to get the mob killed before they aggro the casters or scatter.
Since VoS is an enchantment, we can upkeep it with Extent Enchantments to be more flexible (htough i'm not shure wether it's needet).
Sand Sharts are pretty bad now that i think about it, since it does no physikal damage to trigger MoP and no armorignoring damage to harm foes, i just put it in for AoE.
Aura of Thorns is the teardown-feeder for EA and provides cripple for anti-scatter.
HoF, "IatS" and Irrestible Sweap are for leftover foes. So far, that's my bar.

Now the monks are pretty clear, I think. Just the normal utility+RoJ to blow everything up. Two copys of Splinter Weapon are in here because i want to have them on me all the time, but I'm not shure about that, either.

The Mesmers are the mesmers. Nothing to say about them, I though. Put 'em in, like allways. But after trying all of it out, I asked myself "Why should I actually bring them? MoP+VoS is the strongest damage-engine in the game, so we dont need them, do we?".

The ST is the protting one, it was ment to keep me alive without casting anything while I'm pulling/balling the foes. Plus, ST is cool 'n strong 'n that.

The SoS is the only healer and provides utility to finish of the restmob.

Oh, and yeah, the necro. He needs MoP, the rest totaly doesn't matter, so I decided to let him move the team. Dark Fury is totaly bad, but i didnt see it, cause i just thought "DF -> good for melee".

After some testing, I noticed, that a) I'm proberbly to bad for propper pulling or b) I' lacking defense, because I took to much damage within the pull, and wasn't able to ball them up befor the rit came all accros and healed me, and took the aggro from me.
Then, I thought about the mesmers. Mesmers are pretty strong and all, but they are just not need in this team, so I can take space for some more deffensive.
Then, Dark Fury on the necro. No comment on that. And finaly I decidet, that i don't need some skills on myself and addet more defense. All in all, this is what i came allong with:

I know, I know... ST+ER=much, much prot, but I wantet to micro some REAL prots on myself, not this squishy "arround the corner" spirit-protting.

What do you say, is all this wirth something or did i wastet my time? What i improvable? Help me, verbaly kill me, critisise me, flame me. The normal stuff, pls.

Cookie

//Edit:Earth Praiers are only 9, because we dont want to do damage through VoS, we just want to trigger MoP with it, and have some snaring through Aura of Thorns, so we really don't need it any higher.

AndrewSX · Aug 30, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Personally i think that the best setupd would be a mix of those 2.
From step 1 to 2 some things improves, some not. Imo...

-ER+ST isn't necessary AT ALL. If you've got problems in using only ST (step 1), i'd suggest u to 1:remove Union an leave only 2 spirits (shelther upkeep improves dramatically) 2: micro it extensively in flagging and laying down spirits, then pull only in Shelther range (some texmode displaying that range may be helpful).
Also, if you need single target prot for pull/tankchaining those 2 Soa placed on monks is the answer.

-I'm not at all a fan of Mop in a hero bar. Requires too much effort in microing and doesn't always have his optimal power (due to ball/stupid AI or any other stuff)... also, Barbs can be easily dropped, due to long cast(in 2 sec a single target should be dead). That bar seems mostly emergency res and party-wide IMS.
I'd drop the necro totally, but if you want to keep it remember: Judge's Insight turns your dmg into holy, so no more mop triggering.....

-Reintroducing the 2 mes can drastically decrease dmg output of mobs (physical+caster shutdown), expecially when balled...still while blowing them with insane power.

-Finally, i'd rework a bit the Derv bar....faithful is too much defense (drop), same for conviction (drop), and Vos uptime is already great w/o extend (drop-use a ench scythe instead). On the other hand, the player's bar is where you can vary more, so use what you find most comfortable. Btw, I'd suggest you to turn d/w and swap eremite's for wirlwind attack (no ench loss/ adren based), cause you have only 1 pve skill atm.
IAU or Ascan are great alternatives to IatStrongest or as 3rd pve skill too.

Those are just the few things i'd point out at fisrt sight..remember, is just personalt taste/preference sometimes, but that's how i think should work best.

Dn M · Aug 30, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

First, I think heroes dont use glyphs that well...
Second, i would change the ua for a n/rt healer, since i find them to be better at healing (unless u really need ua, for the fast rezzing)
And then 2 copies of splinter for just 1 melee...
You can get a better elite for ur necro too, u can drop gole from the first roj and go mo/p... and then u could just bring 2 copies of fallback!.
I dont think you need 3 copies of soa either...

Besides that it looks cool :b

Shen Al Cahar · Aug 31, 2011, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

Judge's Insight converts your attacks to holy damage and Mark Of Pain requires physical damage to trigger. So maybe that's why things don't blow up that fast.

Dn M · Aug 31, 2011, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shen Al Cahar

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

Judge's Insight converts your attacks to holy damage and Mark Of Pain requires physical damage to trigger. So maybe that's why things don't blow up that fast.

Ye, you should change that too :b

Premium Unleaded · Aug 31, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

The damage from VoS/100b shouldn't be affected by personal effects/mods like JI.

HigherMinion · Aug 31, 2011, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Looks way too defensive...
ST rit
ER prot
UA heal
Hybrid resto rit
two RoJ monks with hex/cond removal and a party heal.

You have hybrids so you can remove whole-healers and still survive with good pulling. This is far too forgiving. Remove the UA or ER. If you drop the ER, put some prots on the UA, make it hybrid so you can micro PS and you lose no functionality and get a free slot.

I've never used an ST rit, and been successful with PS alone, so I'd also say drop that, especially if you're trying to lure/aggro well. Then you can either add more RoJs, FoCs or whatever else for domoges.

Shen Al Cahar · Aug 31, 2011, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

The damage from VoS/100b shouldn't be affected by personal effects/mods like JI.

I quote the official wiki: 'Also, since the damage applied by Hundred Blades is indirect, it will not trigger more damage on Holy Wrath or Retribution.' (not sure if this is in violation of any board rules, sorry in advance if it is).

Reading the damage from 100b is indirect leads me to think that 100b doesn't make MoP trigger. What makes MoP trigger is the sword hit, so if that's changed by JI, MoP shouldn't trigger. (seems like sound logic to me, correct me if I'm wrong)

VoS however is a bit different. Here I'm not sure. Again, I quote the official wiki: 'The bonus slashing damage is applied before the direct damage caused by your primary weapon'

So logically the bonus damage from VoS should trigger MoP, even when the actual hit by the scythe is modified to holy damage. I hope if any Anet ppl read this, they notice how RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing OP this is.

Outerworld · Aug 31, 2011, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shen Al Cahar

I quote the official wiki: 'Also, since the damage applied by Hundred Blades is indirect, it will not trigger more damage on Holy Wrath or Retribution.' (not sure if this is in violation of any board rules, sorry in advance if it is).

Reading the damage from 100b is indirect leads me to think that 100b doesn't make MoP trigger. What makes MoP trigger is the sword hit, so if that's changed by JI, MoP shouldn't trigger. (seems like sound logic to me, correct me if I'm wrong)

100b, like VoS, is physical damage so it will indeed trigger MoP and won't be converted by JI.

CookieOfFury · Aug 31, 2011, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Thank you all for the feedback.

First of all, let me explain the thing with MoP and VoS: Since you hit all foes arround you with Eremite's Attack (or Whirlwind Attack, doesnt matter), VoS hits every foe arround you many, many times. Lets say, there are 5 foes arround you, and you have VoS on yourself, and you activate EA. So, you attack 5 foes, thus triggering VoS 5 times, thus letting every foe take 5x slashing (physikal) damage. And if one of them is hexed with MoP, it will be triggered 5 times, thus, every foe will get hit by a) 1xEremites Attak (which will remove Aura of Thorns, applying Cripple and hindering them at fleeing), b)5x VoS, what really is not to impressive because it is not armor-irnoring and c), and this c) is what the most damage comes from, 5x MoP on every foe arround you; armorignoring-AoE damage on a balled mob. Dependin on the area, you can also have like 10-20 foes balled up, thus killing it with MoP allone. Next to that, the RoJ looks like damage support or so, it it great for solid damage, but I never want to cut MoP for anything.

@AndrewSX:
The problem I got with chaining SoA is that the monks have to come into my range to recast it, since it only lasts 6s (7 with enchmod), so they steal the aggro. I may try to lure the foes and let them recast it, but i dont want to die WHILE pulling and WHILE having no SoA on myself.
The MoP is one essential part of the teambuild (as mentioned above), the rest of the necro is pretty open, I just like to run faster at all, but tbh, I did not now what else to fit in^.^.
I kicked the Mesmers because I needet to have more Defense, perhaps I overkilled it, but i thought, that the damage is enough (though one never can have enough damage at all), since I want to spike them down, so the Mesmers don't matter at all.
I created the Dervbuild on pawned², and i saw the old Conviction, the newer one is pretty bad, so i decided to kick it, aswell as Faithfull Intervention and add IAU and Mirage Cloak. Extend Enchanments can be swapped out for A-Scan if I expect blocking or blindness.
I disagree with swapping EA for WA though. The cripple from Aura of Thorns is kewl for snaring foes and keep them in RoJ + I dont need to wait for adrenaline for WA, though that is not a problem at all, it should fill within one swing.

@Dn M:
Afaik the heros use GolE pretty well, and since it is an E-management skill (what they really need) without any attribute (what they can not affort at all), I think, it fits pretty well.
I don't need the instant rezz from UA (only in missions without rezzshrines, perhaps), so adding a N/Rt is a good idea.
The two Splinters don't hurt at all, depending on the area, I allmost allway want to have it uppon me, and since it goes away with ~1 swing, I think, we can keep it. It helped allot in Battle for LA for example, but it can be swapped out for areas with less foes, so one has to decide each time you go out.
As mentioned before, the Monks need more e-management than the Signet, so I don't see the FB here, but perhaps I'm wrong, and they are fine with it. I'll take a look at them in just a second (right after the posting). The three SoA are to much indeed, but I don't want to keep the EMo anyway.

@HigherMinion:
But I like healers

. No, to be honstet, I think, you are right. Making the UA to an N/Rt resto-support-whatever, and take a bit more single target damage on the EMo slot for finishing of restover foes.

So, all in one:
Faithfull Intervention + Conviction -> IAU + Mirage Cloak on my bar.
Minus one Splinter depending on the area -> something else.
UA -> N/Rt
EMo -> Utility with single target DPS, PS, Life Bond etc.

I'll check and try out now. Once again, thank you all for your feedback, I want more fo this :-).

Cookie

Relyk · Sep 14, 2011, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Bonder is overkill with ST and and prots. IAU should be more than enough to survive the pull, otherwise prots and Mirage Cloak guarantees you won't die. You can also use mirage cloak to fuel Eremite's Attack. You need whirlwind attack, it's a second eremite's. To keep foes snared in RoJ, bring Binding Chains on the ST rit and micro it. You get used to it after a few times. Bring the Panic Mesmer back, it can literally shutdown the entire caster backline, making the job of tanking and killing leftovers much easier. Sand Shards should also be re-added, the additional damage is still significant even when it's armor-respecting. Keep in mind EBSoH will boost this damage as well. You don't need extend enchantments; with a Scythe of enchanting, the down time is around 2 seconds.